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Talk:Adeleine
Wasn't Adeleine, Ado in Kirby DreamLand 3? -LyokoTitan101 :The Ado article seems to imply that, but I think it's debatable. YellowYoshi398 01:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC) This guy makes a good case for Ado = Adeleine http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=250600&topic=50596993 Besides, you all have to admit that there's simply not enough noteworthy or different enough between these two characters / names. The "Ado" article should probably just be merged into this "Adeleine" one or a new "Ado / Adeleine" article. This is like having two different articles for Cook Kawasaki and Chef Kawasaki, or Sir Kibble and Lord Kibble. 18:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :No, we are not a fandom wiki ::Besides, I have all those arguments of Ado's page. EmptyStar 18:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC) "(...she is not an original creation of Masahiro Sakurai and he had never intended on humans to appear in Kirby's series so as to create a unique universe without familiar lifeforms)" When did he say this? (And he just let HAL take care of the series after he left them anyway) 23:21, January 3, 2012 (UTC) She is the only mini-boss who is a playable character. Maybe Ado and Adeleine are siblings?I'm epic...is that a problem? (talk) 22:59, September 29, 2012 (UTC) Add Photo? Can I add This Photo? Huh? "Hesitant to join the group"? Are you really sure about that? Are you sure you aren't confusing her with Waddle Dee? Adeleine instantly offered her assistance to Kirby, Ribbon and Waddle Dee after they freed her from Dark Matter. And she never showed any signs of distrust to the group in the cutscenes. I recommend you to rewatch Kirby 64 cutscenes and fix her "Personality" section. I=-Vanya-=I (talk) 15:08, August 25, 2018 (UTC) :If you see that there is a problem with an article, remember that you can always take action by fixing it yourself, and leaving an edit summary to explain why you changed something (in this case, you could've explained that we should rewatch the cutscenes to verify you were telling the truth in the summary). But thanks for bringing this problem up, anyway. Meta Kirby52 This won't be pretty. 16:06, August 25, 2018 (UTC) Ado I think Ado should've kept her page, instead of having us fuse it with Adeleine's page. She looks a bit older than Adeleine is. :No. It was officially confirmed they are the same character. Read the "Identity" section for more details. I=-Vanya-=I (talk) 14:09, February 12, 2019 (UTC) Ado = Adeleine Confirmation is FALSE In 2017, an alledged confirmation was floating around that supposedly said that Ado and Adeleine were the same person. This is referenced in the "Idenity" section of this very article. However, the translations from back then are wrong, and were also taken out of context. In reality, the cited image says nothing that confirms Ado and Adeleine to be the same person, and it actually treats them more like different characters, if anything. You can read my translations of what the image actually says here. Because of this, I believe the articles should be split back into one for Ado and one for Adeleine. And even if you disagree with splitting them, pretty much everything in the "Identity" section of this article is complete misinformation, some mistranslations, some literally made up, and should be removed as soon as possible. Kaialone (talk) 09:17, February 18, 2019 (UTC) I would say yes. Another difference is Ado looks slightly taller and leaner (and older), whereas Adeleine looks a bit fatter (though still relatively lean) and is a bit shorter and younger.RileyGronlundSuperMario (talk) 09:53, February 18, 2019 (UTC)RileyGronlundSuperMario Yes. Though, it can be a bit confusing, because Adeleine's design evidentally did start out as an alternate design for Ado, (its not entirely on topic, but I also made a long post detailing their history if you want more context). But either way, the fact of the matter is that the most recent official statements on the issue were the previously mentioned image from page 271 of "Arts & Style Collection", which treats Ado and Adeleine like they're assumed to be different people, and page 20 of''' "Pupupu Taizen", which says that it's not not known wether they are the same person or not. In order to be accurate to this currently established canon, the pages should be split, but I do not know how splitting is handled on this wiki. Would one just create a new article called "Ado" and move information exclusive to her over to that one? Kaialone (talk) 10:25, February 18, 2019 (UTC) Yeah, but doing so has been kinda hard.RileyGronlundSuperMario (talk) 10:42, February 18, 2019 (UTC) I could do that, if it's alright, since I have been going deep into the history of the two recently, most info on them is still fresh in my mind. Kaialone (talk) 11:07, February 18, 2019 (UTC) :I’m a bit busy at the moment, but I will be available later today so that this situation may be worked out. Iqskirby (talk) 13:58, February 18, 2019 (UTC) :Alright, I'll wait until you can get to this topic. Kaialone (talk) 14:13, February 18, 2019 (UTC) ::So, before we continue, let me just assert something. We will not be making any changes until a conclusion/consensus has occurred. I'm not throwing shade or anything, it is just general procedure that if a possible change is discussed on a talk page, there should be a conclusion of sorts before action is taken. ::That aside, I appreciate the amount of information you've contributed regarding this topic; I read through both of your posts and I appreciate how you used the images in question, have the Japanese written out in text (so that others may also be able to translate and to make things more clear), and your own translations, along with possible alternatives when seen fit. There are a few ways we can go about the situation. As you proposed, we could split the page back into Ado and Adeleine; you may opt to do it yourself, or someone else (such as myself) can take on the task if you feel uncomfortable with doing so, under the assumption that we decide to take the splitting route. We could leave the page as "Adeleine," but assert that Adeleine and Ado are not confirmed to be the same individual, and that this page simply represents them both "for convenience purposes;" we could also further separate details apparent to Ado and Adeleine as seen fit. Similarly, we could rename the page to "Ado and Adeleine" (or something along those lines), as arguably having two individual pages or one page with one name could be seen as an assertion that "the wiki" believes they are separate beings or one being respectively. Iqskirby (talk) 17:19, February 18, 2019 (UTC) So, Adeleine and Ado are NOT the same person? Man, and I thought we were all finished with that. Although, I just wanna bring up a few things. As mentioned on the article, Adeleine has a move called “Ado’s Painter” in Star Allies, despite said move using Adeleine’s easel on a tree stump from Kirby 64. Now, it could be called that because they are very similar, but, if I’m being honest, I’m not totally sure. However, there’s the description for the Adeleine & Ribbon trailer on the official Nintendo UK YouTube channel, which states “Remember Adeleine & Ribbon from '''Kirby's Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards?” While the normal Nintendo channel just states that she’s from Kirby 64, everything else relating to Star Allies also just says that Gooey’s from Dream Land 3 despite him making his first appearance in Dream Land 2, so... Anyway, I don’t know if the Japanese YouTube description just says that she’s from 64, though it most likely does, but for proof of the UK description, the video can be seen here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k4zZz2jiBe0 Not trying to prove you wrong or anything. Just giving some things that you didn’t cover that you could possibly bring into consideration. Cuckoo Kirby fan (talk) 19:57, February 18, 2019 (UTC)Cuckoo Kirby fan : Regarding what you said, Iqskirby: I'm glad you appreciated my posts, and you are right, that's actually exactly why I try to include the Japanese text whenever possible, because it just seems more fair to let people double check, too, : And, sorry for jumping the gun with already making edits to the article. I'd personally prefer splitting the articles (this is also what how the Japanese Kirby wiki does it, though naturally we don't have to do everything the way they do), but I see your point about splitting articles maybe coming off too much like "this wiki" has decided they are different people. : Though, we do have cases of a single character having multiple articles under different names, mostly bosses of course, like say Star Dream and Star Dream Soul OS. I get that in those cases it's also because it's unique boss fights, but technically that could somewhat apply to Ado and Adeleine as well, even if one were to lean towards them being the same person. I know this is probably a stretch, I'm mostly saying that splitting the articles wouldn't 100% mean that "the wiki" considers them different people for sure. : But even with that argument, I would also be fine with keeping it as one article that makes clear note of the differences, if that would ultimately be preferable still. : And regarding what you said, Cuckoo Kirby fan: The attack name "Ado's Painter" is actually simply called "Ado Painter" in Japanese, but either way I personally feel that a possible reference to Ado is not truly proof that they are the same person, but I do get that it can make it seem more likely. : Regarding the UK youtube description, while it does say that Adeleine was in KDL3, it seems suspicious that this is not mentioned in the US and JPN description. The JPN description actually has no text of the sort, only links to related pages. : Maybe its overly cautious of me, but with things like these it's more often than not a mistake on the localizers part, from my experience. : With Adeleine being a playable character in Star Allies, it feels like they would bring up her being Ado in a Star Allies Channel Update, a Nintendo Dream interview, or anything of the sorts, if it was the case. Kaialone (talk) 20:49, February 18, 2019 (UTC) ::While I'd usually like to disregard what others say about the wiki, at least as far as potential badmouthing and the likes, I suppose we do have a reputation that needs to be kept, as far as positives anyway. As for characters that have multiple pages, that is something I'd personally like to do away with (Kracko becoming the antithesis of having multiple pages per character), but I haven't been able to push that idea with regards to "Soul" bosses, because they're apparently "too important to be on the same page" and "if they were added, the page would be too long." I can't have everything be my way around here, so it's just something I have to live with. Anyway, as far as the page splitting or not, I can probably go either way. Iqskirby (talk) 21:33, February 18, 2019 (UTC) ::: I wanted to get a second opinion on this, so I swung on over to the Japanese Wikia and asked a reliable user(Kirbyellow, if you're curious) about the image and the contents. Forgive me, but I just think it's sort of odd how we've gone two years with this information present (which has given it plenty of time to spread about the internet) and only just now has somebody retranslated the image in question, and then brought it to our attention. Because of this, I felt the need to get, as I said, a second opinion on what's being spoken about in the image. These sorts of things happen though, I suppose, and I am keeping an open mind about this situation. Meta Kirby52 This won't be pretty. 21:45, February 18, 2019 (UTC) :::: I'm willing to wait if you'd want a second opinion of course. I am pretty confident in my translation though, and I could explain every sentence and word in detail, if you'd like me to. Kaialone (talk) 07:54, February 19, 2019 (UTC) I'd like to bring up what the Japanese wiki says about Adeleine and Ado. On Adeleine's article, under the "relationship with other characters" section, it's mentioned as follows: "Any relation with Ado, who appears in Kirby's Dream Land 3, is unknown. There is evidence of the possibility that 'Ado' may be a nickname for 'Adeleine' (citing Pupupu Taizen). Incidentally, in a briefing session leaflet for Kirby 64, Adeleine is referred to as Ado." On Ado's page there's the same statement, "There is evidence of the possibility that 'Ado' may be a nickname for 'Adeleine'." Also, likely going off of the manga reference sheet that was mentioned earlier, Ado and Adeleine share their "manga appearances" section. Going off of this and "Ado's Painter" (or just "Ado Painter", as mentioned), I believe there's more evidence leaning towards them being the same character than not, but of course, it's not concrete. I mean, in my opinion it's about as obvious as Void being related to Zero, but... DryKirby64 (talk) 01:22, February 20, 2019 (UTC) : Yes, there is strong evidence that Ado and Adeleine were initially supposed to be same character. But since "Pupupu Taizen" in 2012 stated that its unknown if they are the same, and "Art & Style Collection" in 2017 also treats them as merely looking similar, not as being the same, it seems pretty clear to me that the current official stance is that it's intentionally ambigious. If they were ever meant to be the same, it's clearly been retconned. If you are interested, I actually did go over all the connections between the characters mentioned on the Japanese wiki that you mentioned, and more, in my second post. I linked it earlier, but in case you woudn't wanna look for it, it's here. : I understand though that this can be pretty confusing, especially since it does seem pretty clear that the two started out as the same character during Kirby 64's development, and the choice to keep it ambigious was seemingly made at a later point in time, based on all the evidence. Kaialone (talk) 09:55, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :: I wanna give my two cents on the matter, but I seriously disagree with splitting the two pages. Because you can basically count all of Ado's and Adeleine's differences with one hand: artstyle, clothing and hairstyle. That's it. They're the same gender, have the same abilities, exact same color scheme, almost the exact same boss fight, etc, etc. I get the part that the relation between the two has not been confirmed, but honestly I don't like this mentality of waiting until completely obvious facts and observations get an official confirmation. Really think they should be merged for the sake of simplicity, because nobody wins if the characters are kept separate. :: Yes, this is really like, superficial stuff, but just because something everybody already accepts with simple observations isn't confirmed as true, doesn't mean said observation is false. Just wanted to throw my own opinion on this. --Kirb Star (SmashLawler) (talk) 15:54, March 5, 2019 (UTC) :: :: I understand where you are coming from, and I would personally be fine with keeping the characters in a single article, if most people feel that would be better. But we should still point out that they are not officially confirmed to be the same. :: Especially because it's not like there just hasn't been a statement, the most recent statement is "it's unknown", which means the possibility of them not being the same character has been officially acknowledged. I get that it seems "obvious" that they are the same, but one has to be careful with that, because it's not objective. To some people it's 100% obvious that Francisca and Flamberge have a romantic interest in one another, rather than being sisters, but that doesn't mean we get to write it like in the article, because the current official stance is intentional ambiguity. Same with things like Meta Knight being the same species as Kirby, etc. :: I for one find it notable that even with Adeleine coming back, no comment on her relationship to Ado has been made yet, even though it would be the perfect opportunity. If it was a really simple, obvious thing, there'd be nothing stopping them from just saying it. :: I'm not saying that this means they are 100% certainly different people, I just feel that either interpretation is subjective at this point. Kaialone (talk) 08:39, March 6, 2019 (UTC) ::Well, considering they were still not confirmed to be the same character, then I'm for splitting the page. Because it feels weird for two characters that were not confirmed to be the same have one page for both. That's like having Morpho Knight and the butterfly on the same page. Or Zero and 02. So, yeah, feel free to split the page. I=-Vanya-=I (talk) 15:42, March 25, 2019 (UTC) Shouldn't this be a merge page? :I'm not sure what you mean. We don't anything we can merge it with exactly; there exists an Ado page, but it's only used to redirect here. Iqskirby (talk) 05:36, March 27, 2019 (UTC) Split or not? Sorry for my long absence from this discussion, I was busy with other projects. But in any case, I wanted to ask if it would be alright to split these pages? I didn't want to do it if Vanya was the only one who agreed (not for nothing). My arguments can still be found above, however I also think it would be nice for this wiki in particular, since it's partnered with the Japanese wiki, which does have seperate pages for the two of them. Kaialone (talk) 10:42, July 23, 2019 (UTC)